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Thread: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

  1. #1

  2. #2

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    It makes sense, but why would the COWH destroy what he helped to create?

  3. #3

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    The general is 100% correct.

  4. #4

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    Could be a good opportunity to partner with some new faces over there (Iran in particular).

    I worry more about what they are doing with all the money they have now. How much do you think it would take to buy off a couple baggage handlers at some random European or American airport?

  5. #5

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    The United States has fought its longest war more than three times longer than U.S. involvement in World War II lest Afghanistan become a state unable or unwilling to prevent terrorists operating with impunity in a substantial area. Since this war began, U.S. policies have created two such voids by shattering two states, those of Iraq and Libya.

    Friedman reports that Obama says his regret about Libya is not that he waged an utterly optional war of regime change. Rather, Obama regrets not getting busy "on the ground" to "manage" Libya's transition to democracy. So, even after 13 years in Afghanistan and nearly a decade in Iraq, Obama wishes the United States had gone into Libya for more of the excitements and satisfactions of nation-building.

    Two questions must be distinguished. First, is it an important U.S. interest or duty to protect, as much as air power can, Kurds and Yazidis from the Islamic State, and to (in Obama's words) "push back" (back to where?) this group? Even if the answer is yes, there is another question: Is it wise to support the use of force by this president? He is properly cautious about today's awful dilemma, which is not primarily of his making. But caution can be reckless.

    One of Napoleon's aphorisms "If you start to take Vienna, take Vienna" means: In military matters, tentativeness is ruinous. Are F-18s going to be used for a foreign policy of rightminded gestures remember#BringBackOurGirls? the success of which is in making the gesturers feel virtuous? "Success," said T.S. Eliot, "is relative: It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things." There is much material rubble, actually to work with as we seek success.
    - George Will

    The neocons can't accept that colonialism is dead.
    "War is the health of the state"
    What better for the state than a war that can't be won and never ends?

  6. #6

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    One of the common criticisms of the War on Terror was that we couldn't fight a stateless enemy.

    Well, they're not stateless anymore. They have declared their occupied territory the Islamic State. They have flags, uniforms, courts and police.

    Bomb the hell out of Islamic State.

  7. #7

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition
    Bomb the hell out of Islamic State.
    and then act indignant when IS bombs the U.S....

    We understand the routine, the point is that it doesn't work.

  8. #8

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    History has shown that it's entirely possible to defeat a state.

  9. #9

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition
    History has shown that it's entirely possible to defeat a state.
    Yes, you can destroy Saddam's Iraq, and look what you get.
    You can destroy Qaddafi's Libya, and look what you get.
    We've only helped half destroy Assad's Syria, and you see what we get - right?

    It seems lost on you that IS exists as a result of our actions.

    Colonialism is dead. Between the TV and the AK isn't not realistic policy option - unless your goal is eternal war.

  10. #10

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seminole97
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition
    History has shown that it's entirely possible to defeat a state.
    Yes, you can destroy Saddam's Iraq, and look what you get.
    You can destroy Qaddafi's Libya, and look what you get.
    We've only helped half destroy Assad's Syria, and you see what we get - right?

    It seems lost on you that IS exists as a result of our actions.

    Colonialism is dead. Between the TV and the AK isn't not realistic policy option - unless your goal is eternal war.
    South Korea, Germany and Japan are doing pretty well. We still have troops there. Maybe if Oblahblah wasn't in such a hurry to get out of Iraq we wouldn't be having these problems.

  11. #11

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    [quote=The Tradition]
    Quote Originally Posted by Seminole97
    Quote Originally Posted by "The Tradition":zfvdeu4d
    History has shown that it's entirely possible to defeat a state.
    Yes, you can destroy Saddam's Iraq, and look what you get.
    You can destroy Qaddafi's Libya, and look what you get.
    We've only helped half destroy Assad's Syria, and you see what we get - right?

    It seems lost on you that IS exists as a result of our actions.

    Colonialism is dead. Between the TV and the AK isn't not realistic policy option - unless your goal is eternal war.
    South Korea, Germany and Japan are doing pretty well. We still have troops there. Maybe if Oblahblah wasn't in such a hurry to get out of Iraq we wouldn't be having these problems.[/quote:zfvdeu4d]

    I agree with you in most of this thread, but knock off the idea that Iraq was post war Germany or Japan. Nothing in common in terms of danger to our troops or the toxicity of the political atmosphere. Both those countries were beat and done.

  12. #12

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...


    I agree with you in most of this thread, but knock off the idea that Iraq was post war Germany or Japan. Nothing in common in terms of danger to our troops or the toxicity of the political atmosphere. Both those countries were beat and done.
    As was Saddam's army. They were completely routed, forces scattered to the winds, and their leader captured and executed. A later insurgency was also defeated, and most of the surviving fighters ran off to Syria. Then Obama incredulously sends all the troops home, allowing these bastards to come back, badder than ever. If you really think that letting their power grow is no threat to your safe little life in Mainstreet USA, you are seriously delusional. The entire world should stand up to this evil, not just us. But they cannot be allowed to continue to fester and commit genocide. That is simply intolerable.

  13. #13

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seminole97
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition
    Bomb the hell out of Islamic State.
    and then act indignant when IS bombs the U.S....

    We understand the routine, the point is that it doesn't work.
    Do you know what a war is?

    Are you confused somewhere?

    Do you get that AQ and it's affiliated groups are fighting a war against the US?

    This war is happening whether you like it or not.

  14. #14

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    I get both sides of the argument. Given our enemy, it's truly a war without end. On the other hand, hoping the threat just goes away isn't an option either.

    I fear it will be coming to a theater near us very soon...

  15. #15

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtNole
    I get both sides of the argument. Given our enemy, it's truly a war without end. On the other hand, hoping the threat just goes away isn't an option either.

    I fear it will be coming to a theater near us very soon...
    It's like the line from the movie Munich "why cut your finger nails, they'll only grow back?"

    Or another analogy, why shave your beard, it'll only grow back thicker.

    But you cut your nails right? and you shave everyday. Because the alternative is no acceptable to you.

    These people need to die because they are monsters, and they are going to try and kill us if they're alive.

    ISIS needs to be destroyed, for the sake of our own safety, and the safety of the civilized world.

    And the US has to coordinate the mission to destroy them because no one else has the know how or capability.

    We don't want this war, but it's not up to us. ISIS has made that decision for us.

  16. #16

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition

    I agree with you in most of this thread, but knock off the idea that Iraq was post war Germany or Japan. Nothing in common in terms of danger to our troops or the toxicity of the political atmosphere. Both those countries were beat and done.
    As was Saddam's army. They were completely routed, forces scattered to the winds, and their leader captured and executed. A later insurgency was also defeated, and most of the surviving fighters ran off to Syria. Then Obama incredulously sends all the troops home, allowing these bastards to come back, badder than ever. If you really think that letting their power grow is no threat to your safe little life in Mainstreet USA, you are seriously delusional. The entire world should stand up to this evil, not just us. But they cannot be allowed to continue to fester and commit genocide. That is simply intolerable.
    The 1st part of your response is nonsense, and the 2nd part assumes an argument on my part that I haven't and won't make. Saddam's army was completely defeated, but Sunni tribesman carried on a pretty dangerous and far reaching civil war long after that which resulted in the deaths of thousands of our troops. No such thing like that existed in post war Germany and Japan. Surely you know this and only pretend not to.

    As to the latter part, we all know since 9/11 that we are not completely safe in the US from religious fanatics, even if that doesn't mean we will see ISIS troops massing on our borders, so your pretense of being the tough realist in this debate is posturing. As to sending the troops home, that agreement was made by Bush and the policy continued by Obama because we aren't staying there forever, ISIS or no ISIS. especially when an agreement with Iraq would have our troops under Iraqi law.

  17. #17

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    BS. Obama could have negotiated a new agreement, but he had no intention of doing that.

  18. #18

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition

    I agree with you in most of this thread, but knock off the idea that Iraq was post war Germany or Japan. Nothing in common in terms of danger to our troops or the toxicity of the political atmosphere. Both those countries were beat and done.
    As was Saddam's army. They were completely routed, forces scattered to the winds, and their leader captured and executed. A later insurgency was also defeated, and most of the surviving fighters ran off to Syria. Then Obama incredulously sends all the troops home, allowing these bastards to come back, badder than ever. If you really think that letting their power grow is no threat to your safe little life in Mainstreet USA, you are seriously delusional. The entire world should stand up to this evil, not just us. But they cannot be allowed to continue to fester and commit genocide. That is simply intolerable.
    WWII Germany = Saddam's Iraq. Wow.

    FTR, the withdrawal agreement was signed by W - with a timeline. The idiocy that you can withdraw 100,000 troops from a country and and NOT have a timeline and NOT have anyone notice is comical. The idea that the US can simply house troops in a sovereign country without the consent of that country is ridiculous.

    I suppose you would have had us pursue the "enemy" into Syria. And then Lebanon? Then where? And when they blend into the local population...how did you plan on identifying them? When exactly would you have declared victory? And exactly how would you know you had won? About the only thing you got right is that the world should stand up to ISIL. They really should. How exactly do you think that should be accomplished? Do you really think the rest of the world cares that they executed an American journalist?

    Armchair generals are the worst. Eternal war is nothing to them.
    "The transition from democracy to tyranny is most easily brought about by a popular leader who knows how to exploit the class antagonism between the rich and the poor within the democratic state, and who succeeds in building up a bodyguard of a private army of his own. The people who have hailed him first as the champion of freedom are soon enslaved."

    -From Things Plato Never Said

  19. #19

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    I think what they are doing to ordinary people is worse than the journalist. He chose to be there.

  20. #20

    Re: The only correct policy regarding ISIS...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition
    BS. Obama could have negotiated a new agreement, but he had no intention of doing that.
    The Iraqis refused to immunize US troops from prosecution under Iraqi law. Period. That was non-negotiable. Their Parliament would have never passed such a measure.
    "The transition from democracy to tyranny is most easily brought about by a popular leader who knows how to exploit the class antagonism between the rich and the poor within the democratic state, and who succeeds in building up a bodyguard of a private army of his own. The people who have hailed him first as the champion of freedom are soon enslaved."

    -From Things Plato Never Said

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