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Thread: CLIMATE REALITIES

  1. #1

    CLIMATE REALITIES

    A pretty good overview of the the global warming problem over the next century, with an emphasis on the global economics and politics (the author is an economist). It is not encouraging.

    "The world is now on track to more than double current greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere by the end of the century. This would push up average global temperatures by three to eight degrees Celsius and could mean the disappearance of glaciers, droughts in the mid-to-low latitudes, decreased crop productivity, increased sea levels and flooding, vanishing islands and coastal wetlands, greater storm frequency and intensity, the risk of species extinction and a significant spread of infectious disease.

    The United Nations has set a goal of keeping global temperatures from rising by no more than two degrees Celsius above preindustrial levels. (The average global temperature has increased by about 0.8 degrees Celsius since 1880, with two-thirds of the warming occurring since 1975.) Meeting this goal would require a worldwide reduction in greenhouse gas emissions of 40 to 70 percent by midcentury, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. That’s an immense challenge.

    The reality is that 300 years of economic growth in the industrialized countries have been fueled by the combustion of fossil fuels — coal, petroleum and natural gas. We still depend on these. And the large emerging economies of China, India, Brazil, South Korea, Mexico and South Africa are rapidly putting in place new infrastructure that is also dependent on burning fossil fuels.

    Two points are important to understand if we’re going to be serious about attacking this problem.

    One, it will be costly. An economic assessment might be “difficult, but not impossible.” And two, things become more challenging when we move from the economics to the politics.
    Doing what is necessary to achieve the United Nations’ target for reducing emissions would reduce economic growth by about 0.06 percent annually from now through 2100, according to the I.P.C.C. That sounds trivial, but by the end of the century it means a 5 percent loss of worldwide economic activity per year.

    And this cost projection assumes optimal conditions — the immediate implementation of a common global price or tax on carbon dioxide emissions, a significant expansion of nuclear power and the advent and wide use of new, low-cost technologies to control emissions and provide cleaner sources of energy.

    If the new technologies we hope will be available aren’t, like one that would enable the capture and storage of carbon emissions from power plants, the cost estimates more than double.

    Then there are the politics, which are driven by two fundamental facts.

    First, greenhouse gases mix globally in the atmosphere, and so damages are spread around the world, regardless of where the gases were emitted. Thus, any country taking action incurs the costs, but the benefits are distributed globally. This presents a classic free-rider problem: It is in the economic self-interest of virtually no country to take unilateral action, and each can reap the benefits of any countries that do act. This is why international cooperation is essential.

    Second, some of these heat-trapping gases — in particular, carbon dioxide — remain in the atmosphere for centuries, so even if we were to rapidly reduce emissions, the problem would not be solved immediately. Even the most aggressive efforts will take time to ramp up.

    These realities — the global nature and persistence of the problem — present fundamental geopolitical challenges.

    Reducing greenhouse gas pollution will require the unalloyed cooperation of at least the 15 countries and one region (the European Union) that together account for about 80 percent of global carbon dioxide emissions. This will mean resolving deep divisions between industrialized nations and developing countries, which argue they should be able to build their economies, just as the West did, without having to reduce or slow the growth of their emissions. This dispute has prevented progress internationally...."

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/21/op ... ities.html

  2. #2

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    One, it will be costly.---Well, I have to say that came along in the article much sooner than I expected. We definitely need to give this guy, and his cronies, a license to spend, before we all die!!!
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

  3. #3
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    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    We had More CO2 Released into the atmosphere in 2013 than EVER BEFORE.... yet, the overall GLOBAL TEMP has remained the same....

    Common Sense.... Is lacking in believers....




    I am sure there is no Collusion going on or anything :roll:

  4. #4

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Largest increase in polar ice ever in the last year. Global warming errrrrrrrrr Climate change is a HOAX

  5. #5

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    September snow in USA already

  6. #6

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Didn't Gore say all polar ice would be gone by 2014???? Yes he did LOLOLOL

  7. #7

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacedog
    Didn't Gore say all polar ice would be gone by 2014???? Yes he did LOLOLOL
    They've been wrong on everything so far. This is the real problem I have with everything. This problem has been going on for 44 years and hasn't been "fixed" yet, so either there really isn't a problem, or the people trying to solve the problem are woefully inadequate to handle the job, in which case we need someone new with a new perspective.
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

  8. #8
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    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Claim: New Antarctic sea-ice extent due to wind and ‘atmospheric warming’ – what warming?








    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/09/1...-what-warming/

  9. #9

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    One, it will be costly.---Well, I have to say that came along in the article much sooner than I expected. We definitely need to give this guy, and his cronies, a license to spend, before we all die!!!

    I notice you don't comment on the coming costs of carbon emissions.

    Oh, that's right! In your view none of this is even happening.

  10. #10
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    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Explain the Record amount of CO2 Released into the Atmosphere in 2013....and the GLOBAL Tempature needle not moving one Iota....


    Then explain what exactly is "happening" again....

  11. #11

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    One, it will be costly.---Well, I have to say that came along in the article much sooner than I expected. We definitely need to give this guy, and his cronies, a license to spend, before we all die!!!

    I notice you don't comment on the coming costs of carbon emissions.

    Oh, that's right! In your view none of this is even happening.
    What? I'm supposed to take an Op-Ed piece, written by a Keynesian (all I want to do is spend money) economist who is writing about the environment and is (surprise!) asking for a ton of money, at face value? I hope you won't think less of me if I don't immediately reach for my wallet.
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

  12. #12

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    "The ice is generated in what scientists refer to as "sea ice factories" or polynia - areas of the ocean surface where currents and wind patterns combine to generate sea ice.

    "As soon as sea ice is produced in these polynias it is actually transported away from that so more sea ice can be produced," Dr Lieser said.

    As the area covered in sea ice expands scientists have said the ice on the continent of Antarctica which is not over the ocean continues to deplete.

    CEO of the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems CRC, Tony Worby, said the warming atmosphere is leading to greater sea ice coverage by changing wind patterns.

    "The extent of sea ice is driven by the winds around Antarctica, and we believe that they're increasing in strength and part of that is around the depletion of ozone," he said.

    He said changes to sea ice levels could have implications for the entire Antarctic ecosystem.

    "So the sea ice is a very important habitat for krill in particular and for the reproduction of krill and that forms one of the absolute staples of the diet for many species in the Antarctic."

    While the Antarctic ecosystem braces for change, the world's Antarctic research vessels will also have to contend with treacherous conditions in the months ahead.."

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-14/r ... ce/5742668

  13. #13
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    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Claim: New Antarctic sea-ice extent due to wind and ‘atmospheric warming’ – what warming?

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/09/1...-what-warming/

  14. #14

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    "The ice is generated in what scientists refer to as "sea ice factories" or polynia - areas of the ocean surface where currents and wind patterns combine to generate sea ice.

    "As soon as sea ice is produced in these polynias it is actually transported away from that so more sea ice can be produced," Dr Lieser said.

    As the area covered in sea ice expands scientists have said the ice on the continent of Antarctica which is not over the ocean continues to deplete.

    CEO of the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems CRC, Tony Worby, said the warming atmosphere is leading to greater sea ice coverage by changing wind patterns.

    "The extent of sea ice is driven by the winds around Antarctica, and we believe that they're increasing in strength and part of that is around the depletion of ozone," he said.

    He said changes to sea ice levels could have implications for the entire Antarctic ecosystem.

    "So the sea ice is a very important habitat for krill in particular and for the reproduction of krill and that forms one of the absolute staples of the diet for many species in the Antarctic."

    While the Antarctic ecosystem braces for change, the world's Antarctic research vessels will also have to contend with treacherous conditions in the months ahead.."

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-14/r ... ce/5742668
    So, this means that it's getting so hot that we're going to have trouble with all the oceans freezing over? First we don't have enough ice, and now we have too much?
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

  15. #15

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    One, it will be costly.---Well, I have to say that came along in the article much sooner than I expected. We definitely need to give this guy, and his cronies, a license to spend, before we all die!!!

    I notice you don't comment on the coming costs of carbon emissions.

    Oh, that's right! In your view none of this is even happening.
    What? I'm supposed to take an Op-Ed piece, written by a Keynesian (all I want to do is spend money) economist who is writing about the environment and is (surprise!) asking for a ton of money, at face value? I hope you won't think less of me if I don't immediately reach for my wallet.
    No, this is a synopsis of the political and economic problems we face, based on the research of thousands of climate scientists, the consensus of which is supported by every reputable scientific organization in the world.

    "No scientific body of national or international standing maintains a formal opinion dissenting from any of these main points. The last national or international scientific body to drop dissent was the American Association of Petroleum Geologists,[10] which in 2007[11] updated its statement to its current non-committal position.[12] Some other organizations, primarily those focusing on geology, also hold non-committal positions."

    PS No danger of me thinking less of you, at least as far as your critical faculties are concerned.

  16. #16
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    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    So, this means that it's getting so hot that we're going to have trouble with all the oceans freezing over? First we don't have enough ice, and now we have too much?

    Like Glenn Beck says.... it is so hot now,... it is COLD....

  17. #17

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    "The ice is generated in what scientists refer to as "sea ice factories" or polynia - areas of the ocean surface where currents and wind patterns combine to generate sea ice.

    "As soon as sea ice is produced in these polynias it is actually transported away from that so more sea ice can be produced," Dr Lieser said.

    As the area covered in sea ice expands scientists have said the ice on the continent of Antarctica which is not over the ocean continues to deplete.

    CEO of the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems CRC, Tony Worby, said the warming atmosphere is leading to greater sea ice coverage by changing wind patterns.

    "The extent of sea ice is driven by the winds around Antarctica, and we believe that they're increasing in strength and part of that is around the depletion of ozone," he said.

    He said changes to sea ice levels could have implications for the entire Antarctic ecosystem.

    "So the sea ice is a very important habitat for krill in particular and for the reproduction of krill and that forms one of the absolute staples of the diet for many species in the Antarctic."

    While the Antarctic ecosystem braces for change, the world's Antarctic research vessels will also have to contend with treacherous conditions in the months ahead.."

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-14/r ... ce/5742668
    So, this means that it's getting so hot that we're going to have trouble with all the oceans freezing over? First we don't have enough ice, and now we have too much?
    Not only that, but while it might be really cold in Minnesota, it may at the same time be pretty warm in London - crazy huh? Fortunately you don;t have to keep track of this because actual experts with calculators are doing that and even crazier, they write it all down.

  18. #18

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    One, it will be costly.---Well, I have to say that came along in the article much sooner than I expected. We definitely need to give this guy, and his cronies, a license to spend, before we all die!!!

    I notice you don't comment on the coming costs of carbon emissions.

    Oh, that's right! In your view none of this is even happening.
    What? I'm supposed to take an Op-Ed piece, written by a Keynesian (all I want to do is spend money) economist who is writing about the environment and is (surprise!) asking for a ton of money, at face value? I hope you won't think less of me if I don't immediately reach for my wallet.
    No, this is a synopsis of the political and economic problems we face, based on the research of thousands of climate scientists, the consensus of which is supported by every reputable scientific organization in the world.

    "No scientific body of national or international standing maintains a formal opinion dissenting from any of these main points. The last national or international scientific body to drop dissent was the American Association of Petroleum Geologists,[10] which in 2007[11] updated its statement to its current non-committal position.[12] Some other organizations, primarily those focusing on geology, also hold non-committal positions."

    PS No danger of me thinking less of you, at least as far as your critical faculties are concerned.
    So, if this isn't an op-ed piece, where are all his citations? Maybe I just missed them.
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

  19. #19
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    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Give up you two,..... We do not care about your new religion.

  20. #20

    Re: CLIMATE REALITIES

    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    "The ice is generated in what scientists refer to as "sea ice factories" or polynia - areas of the ocean surface where currents and wind patterns combine to generate sea ice.

    "As soon as sea ice is produced in these polynias it is actually transported away from that so more sea ice can be produced," Dr Lieser said.

    As the area covered in sea ice expands scientists have said the ice on the continent of Antarctica which is not over the ocean continues to deplete.

    CEO of the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems CRC, Tony Worby, said the warming atmosphere is leading to greater sea ice coverage by changing wind patterns.

    "The extent of sea ice is driven by the winds around Antarctica, and we believe that they're increasing in strength and part of that is around the depletion of ozone," he said.

    He said changes to sea ice levels could have implications for the entire Antarctic ecosystem.

    "So the sea ice is a very important habitat for krill in particular and for the reproduction of krill and that forms one of the absolute staples of the diet for many species in the Antarctic."

    While the Antarctic ecosystem braces for change, the world's Antarctic research vessels will also have to contend with treacherous conditions in the months ahead.."

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-14/r ... ce/5742668
    So, this means that it's getting so hot that we're going to have trouble with all the oceans freezing over? First we don't have enough ice, and now we have too much?
    Not only that, but while it might be really cold in Minnesota, it may at the same time be pretty warm in London - crazy huh? Fortunately you don;t have to keep track of this because actual experts with calculators are doing that and even crazier, they write it all down.
    That isn't what I'm talking about. There is a finite amount of water on this Earth. So, if the ice is expanding, that means the oceanic levels are shrinking. So, why are we so worried about glob...I mean climate change again?
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

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