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Thread: Political Judo

  1. #1

    Political Judo

    Use your tools to fix their car,” a key tenet of the idea of triangulation, should be the lynchpin of the Republican midterm campaign of 2014. The president has found a compelling issue in income inequality. Now it is up to the Republicans — not to challenge the issue’s legitimacy as a national concern, but to show how their policies, rather than those of the Democrats, are best equipped to solve it.

    The central issue for Republicans to use in fashioning a GOP solution to income inequality is immigration. Nothing strikes more fundamentally at the pain of the working class, toiling long hours for no increase in real wages, than the competition of millions who come over the border, willing to work for next to nothing.

    Former President Clinton used this strategy to convince voters that the Democratic approach to crime — long a Republican issue — of handgun controls and 100,000 more police was the best solution. Former President George W. Bush sought to take the education issue away from the Democrats by focusing on standards and testing in his No Child Left Behind program. In each case, voters became convinced that the tools of one party were the best suited to fix the problem long identified with the other one.
    Data from the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) reveal that, since the turn of the century, the number of employed native-born Americans has stagnated at 114.7 million in the first quarter of 2014, having been recorded at 114.8 million in 2000. Over the same period, the number of employed non-native-born Americans (whether citizens or not, legal or not) has grown by 5.7 million.

    The authors of the CIS study, Karen Zeigler and Steven A. Camarota, note that “all of the net gain in the number of working-age (16 to 65) people holding a job has gone to immigrants (legal and illegal). This is remarkable given that native-born Americans accounted for two-thirds of the growth in the total working-age population.”

    The working people of America intuit that their lack of wage growth and employment opportunity is directly linked to the flood of people coming in across the border. And nothing could be clearer in our current politics than the fact that the Democratic Party of Barack Obama wants the inundation to continue, whereas Republicans want it to stop.

    It was not always so. In first half of the 20th century, it was the GOP that wanted open borders, the more easily to recruit a low-wage work force and hold down the wages of American workers. Still dimly aware that they represent workers, not the Democratic Party, some labor unions persist in calling for immigration restrictions.

    But the lure of ethnic voting has made open borders enticing to the leadership of the Democratic Party, as well as the rapid ascension to voting citizenship of those who arrive.

    Yet Republicans are not betraying their heritage in opposing open borders. Rather, they are tapping into the intellectual legacy of Abraham Lincoln, who opposed the Jeffersonian vision of a nation of yeomen farmers, aristocrats and slaves. The wage system, Lincoln argued, was the only way for the working class to advance above subsistence farming. How were workers to secure decent wages, he would ask, when slaves could be coerced to work for free?

    So, again, we have the phenomenon of elitist “limousine liberals” arguing for open borders, while workers absorb the brunt of the impact.

    These liberals argue that immigrants take jobs the rest of us don’t want. The reason jobs like landscaping, restaurant work and construction are unattractive is that they don’t pay well. And the reason is the influx of immigrants who will accept these low wages.

    Curbing illegal immigration is the jobs and the income inequality issue of our time. Seize it.



    http://thehill.com/opinion/opinion/2...publican-issue

  2. #2

    Re: Political Judo

    But then the Republicans will have to oppose a path to citizenship for 3 year olds who were taken into the US with no say whatsoever and have lived law abiding lives into their adult years.

    And thus ends the GOP ability to exploit the issue for political gain.

    Ah, if only the wing nuts could budge on the Dream Act kids - it would actually give the GOP a veneer of credibility and open up moderate ears to their other immigration policy positions.

    But alas, the GOP has to be ultra extremist on immigration and offer no compromise whatsoever or the wing nuts will grab torches and burn the house down of any "traitor" GOP Pol.

  3. #3

    Re: Political Judo

    I would just refer people to the most wonderful youtube of PM Thatcher;

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwVbxzmCUAEZOpH.jpg:large
    "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."

    -- Richard P. Feynman.

  4. #4

    Re: Political Judo

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Nole
    But then the Republicans will have to oppose a path to citizenship for 3 year olds who were taken into the US with no say whatsoever and have lived law abiding lives into their adult years.

    And thus ends the GOP ability to exploit the issue for political gain.

    Ah, if only the wing nuts could budge on the Dream Act kids - it would actually give the GOP a veneer of credibility and open up moderate ears to their other immigration policy positions.

    But alas, the GOP has to be ultra extremist on immigration and offer no compromise whatsoever or the wing nuts will grab torches and burn the house down of any "traitor" GOP Pol.

    Your post shows the nature of the problem. You think the solution must be all inclusive (pun intended) and satisfy the requirements of the Dems instead of solving the underlying problem.

    The immigration problem is that people come here who shouldn't be here, and they are never made to leave. The more people we keep out, the less people there are to kick out. The Dems want to dance around the underlying problem, and that's keeping people out. Until the underlying problem is solved, we waste a tremendous amount of money treating the symptoms.

    If we talk about the southern border, we do insane things like setting up checkpoints 100 miles inland. Instead of stopping a northerly flow, the flow is expanded east and west. Think garden hose. Insistence on stopping the flow isn't a political thing, it's necessary to solve the underlying problem.

  5. #5

    Re: Political Judo

    Quote Originally Posted by finance85
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Nole
    But then the Republicans will have to oppose a path to citizenship for 3 year olds who were taken into the US with no say whatsoever and have lived law abiding lives into their adult years.

    And thus ends the GOP ability to exploit the issue for political gain.

    Ah, if only the wing nuts could budge on the Dream Act kids - it would actually give the GOP a veneer of credibility and open up moderate ears to their other immigration policy positions.

    But alas, the GOP has to be ultra extremist on immigration and offer no compromise whatsoever or the wing nuts will grab torches and burn the house down of any "traitor" GOP Pol.

    Your post shows the nature of the problem. You think the solution must be all inclusive (pun intended) and satisfy the requirements of the Dems instead of solving the underlying problem.

    The immigration problem is that people come here who shouldn't be here, and they are never made to leave. The more people we keep out, the less people there are to kick out. The Dems want to dance around the underlying problem, and that's keeping people out. Until the underlying problem is solved, we waste a tremendous amount of money treating the symptoms.

    If we talk about the southern border, we do insane things like setting up checkpoints 100 miles inland. Instead of stopping a northerly flow, the flow is expanded east and west. Think garden hose. Insistence on stopping the flow isn't a political thing, it's necessary to solve the underlying problem.
    Those are fair points - but devoid of addressing political realities.

    Bottom lime, the GOP could get more traction to enact and implement more effective measures to keep people out if they would compromise to some degree on dealing with the people already here - and especially the people who cannot be faulted for being here illegally because they had no choice about entering illegally.

    Once again, a complete unwillingness to compromise rips defeat from the jaws of GOP victory.

  6. #6

    Re: Political Judo

    I don't see the logic in the OPs article (although I didn't bother to read the entire thing) because you can't win by alienating the fastest growing voting block.
    King Jackass

  7. #7

    Re: Political Judo

    Is this article for real? Income inequality can be solved by not letting migrant workers compete for jobs with Americans? Let's let that absurd statement sink in for a second. Largely uneducated non English speaking immigrants are stealing middle class jobs from middle class Americans. What a crock of shirt. Unless an American wants to be a field laborer or clean houses, they really don't have to worry about immigrants stealing their jobs. Just more proof that the right doesn't get it. They actually think that a strong middle class is built on Orange picking and hotel maid jobs.

  8. #8

    Re: Political Judo

    [quote=Brooklyn Nole]
    Quote Originally Posted by finance85
    Quote Originally Posted by "Brooklyn Nole":1lr1g02g
    But then the Republicans will have to oppose a path to citizenship for 3 year olds who were taken into the US with no say whatsoever and have lived law abiding lives into their adult years.

    And thus ends the GOP ability to exploit the issue for political gain.

    Ah, if only the wing nuts could budge on the Dream Act kids - it would actually give the GOP a veneer of credibility and open up moderate ears to their other immigration policy positions.

    But alas, the GOP has to be ultra extremist on immigration and offer no compromise whatsoever or the wing nuts will grab torches and burn the house down of any "traitor" GOP Pol.

    Your post shows the nature of the problem. You think the solution must be all inclusive (pun intended) and satisfy the requirements of the Dems instead of solving the underlying problem.

    The immigration problem is that people come here who shouldn't be here, and they are never made to leave. The more people we keep out, the less people there are to kick out. The Dems want to dance around the underlying problem, and that's keeping people out. Until the underlying problem is solved, we waste a tremendous amount of money treating the symptoms.

    If we talk about the southern border, we do insane things like setting up checkpoints 100 miles inland. Instead of stopping a northerly flow, the flow is expanded east and west. Think garden hose. Insistence on stopping the flow isn't a political thing, it's necessary to solve the underlying problem.
    Those are fair points - but devoid of addressing political realities.

    Bottom lime, the GOP could get more traction to enact and implement more effective measures to keep people out if they would compromise to some degree on dealing with the people already here - and especially the people who cannot be faulted for being here illegally because they had no choice about entering illegally.

    Once again, a complete unwillingness to compromise rips defeat from the jaws of GOP victory.[/quote:1lr1g02g]
    Or a complete unwillingness to use common sense. I just can't wrap my head around how restoring a class of jobs so undesirable and low paying that only migrant workers will accept will substantively increase middle class wages.

  9. #9

    Re: Political Judo

    And this article doesn't even bother to address the fact that illegal immigration in actually going down yet income inequality continues to rise.

  10. #10

    Re: Political Judo

    And I'm not sure if anyone else caught it but the article includes legal immigrants in their absurd argument that if only we had no immigrantion we would have no income inequality. Unless the current GOP platform champions allowing a zero immigration policy this argument wouldn't do much much good even if we gave the GOP everything they wanted.

  11. #11

    Re: Political Judo

    Bravo Huey

  12. #12

    Re: Political Judo

    Obviously, this hit a nerve w/huey. Truth hurts?

  13. #13

    Re: Political Judo

    It's not just the "undesirable" jobs that no one else wants. I make my living in the manufacturing sector. What used to be good paying jobs by highly skilled machinists and mechanics have been replaced with mainly illegals willing to work for nothing. I know they are illegal because I worked with them. When filling out employment apps, all they had to do was check a box that said " to the best of your knowledge, you are here legally". What used to pay $20+ an hour, now goes for about $12. Same in the construction industry. Hell, even teenagers are being shut out of min wage jobs(think fast food). It's not just picking fruit and maid service.

  14. #14

    Re: Political Judo

    Quote Originally Posted by KeystoneTX
    It's not just the "undesirable" jobs that no one else wants. I make my living in the manufacturing sector. What used to be good paying jobs by highly skilled machinists and mechanics have been replaced with mainly illegals willing to work for nothing. I know they are illegal because I worked with them. When filling out employment apps, all they had to do was check a box that said " to the best of your knowledge, you are here legally". What used to pay $20+ an hour, now goes for about $12. Same in the construction industry. Hell, even teenagers are being shut out of min wage jobs(think fast food). It's not just picking fruit and maid service.
    The erosion of unions coupled with automation has wrought far more damage on the manufacturing industry. Even if no migrants filled these positions the companies would still be paying bottom barrel wages because there is nobody forcing them to do otherwise. Keep in mind that it's the GOP pushing for no minimum wage at all. If you're complaining about wages being driven down it seems like an odd choice to simultaneously complain that migrant workers are driving wages down while arguing for no wage floor at all.

  15. #15

    Re: Political Judo

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition
    Obviously, this hit a nerve w/huey. Truth hurts?
    The truth that the only way for this article to make sense you would have to not allow anyone in this country at all including legal immigration? Yep. You got me. :roll:

  16. #16

    Re: Political Judo

    And again, nobody has addressed the fact that illegal immigration is on the decline yet the wage gap continues to rise. If illegals were the driving factor behind inequality you would expect the reverse to be true.

  17. #17

    Re: Political Judo

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Nole
    But then the Republicans will have to oppose a path to citizenship for 3 year olds who were taken into the US with no say whatsoever and have lived law abiding lives into their adult years.

    And thus ends the GOP ability to exploit the issue for political gain.

    Ah, if only the wing nuts could budge on the Dream Act kids - it would actually give the GOP a veneer of credibility and open up moderate ears to their other immigration policy positions.

    But alas, the GOP has to be ultra extremist on immigration and offer no compromise whatsoever or the wing nuts will grab torches and burn the house down of any "traitor" GOP Pol.
    We can't afford to be savior of the world dude. Just as you and your liberal friends have told us we cannot afford to be the army of the world either.

  18. #18

    Re: Political Judo

    Quote Originally Posted by Huey Grey
    And this article doesn't even bother to address the fact that illegal immigration in actually going down yet income inequality continues to rise.
    You are trying to tie together different things that have a weak common threads, and that isn't the point of the article.

    The article isn't about that, it's about having the ability to adopt a problem, and offer solutions to a problem, rather than denying the problem exists. Brooklyn is partially right on that front. Brooklyn keeps insisting on repeating the lie that Republicans don't have solutions. They have plenty of solutions, but are absolutely horrible in advertising their solutions. The Dems are the absolute best at controlling the dialogue, and getting people to believe they have solutions and the GOP doesn't.

  19. #19

    Re: Political Judo

    Quote Originally Posted by Huey Grey
    Quote Originally Posted by KeystoneTX
    It's not just the "undesirable" jobs that no one else wants. I make my living in the manufacturing sector. What used to be good paying jobs by highly skilled machinists and mechanics have been replaced with mainly illegals willing to work for nothing. I know they are illegal because I worked with them. When filling out employment apps, all they had to do was check a box that said " to the best of your knowledge, you are here legally". What used to pay $20+ an hour, now goes for about $12. Same in the construction industry. Hell, even teenagers are being shut out of min wage jobs(think fast food). It's not just picking fruit and maid service.
    The erosion of unions coupled with automation has wrought far more damage on the manufacturing industry. Even if no migrants filled these positions the companies would still be paying bottom barrel wages because there is nobody forcing them to do otherwise. Keep in mind that it's the GOP pushing for no minimum wage at all. If you're complaining about wages being driven down it seems like an odd choice to simultaneously complain that migrant workers are driving wages down while arguing for no wage floor at all.
    Why do you think employers hire illegal workers?

    (hint: if an employer is breaking immigrant hiring laws, do you think the employer gives a crap about minimum wage laws?)

    Just in case that flew over your head, increasing minimum wage increases the incentive to avoid the minimum wage by paying people under the table, and hiring illegals, because they're far less likely to complain to regulators about illegal employment practices.

  20. #20

    Re: Political Judo

    Quote Originally Posted by Huey Grey
    And again, nobody has addressed the fact that illegal immigration is on the decline yet the wage gap continues to rise. If illegals were the driving factor behind inequality you would expect the reverse to be true.
    The number of illegals living in this country is not declining. The rate of illegal entry into the country is (allegedly) declining (not sure how the government counts people they failed to catch).

    In any case, your argument is like a Washington spending cut. The amount spent is increasing, but at a smaller rate, so everyone pats themselves on the back for "cutting" spending. :roll:

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