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Thread: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

  1. #1

    Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Russia has "outright lied" to the United Nations about its actions in Ukraine, U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power charged during an emergency meeting Thursday of the Security Council.

    "At every step, Russia has come before this Council to say everything except the truth," Power said. "It has manipulated. It has obfuscated. It has outright lied. So we have learned to measure Russia by its actions and not by its words."

    Earlier Thursday, NATO released new satellite images showing Russian combat troops and military equipment that had crossed the border into southeastern Ukraine. Kiev has declared it an invasion, and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has canceled a plan visit to Turkey to address the situation on the border.

    "The mask is coming off," Power said. "In these acts — these recent acts — we see Russia’s actions for what they are: a deliberate effort to support, and now fight alongside, illegal separatists in another sovereign country."

    She spoke at an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council convened just hours after the reported troop movements.

    President Obama is expected to address the situation Thursday afternoon from the White House, and the State Department has suggested the U.S. and its allies could pursue additional economic sanctions against Russia over the activity.

    But Power suggested in her statement that the U.S. was looking to rally a response.

    "If unchecked, the damage that Russia’s blatant disregard for the international order poses is much, much greater," Power said.

    "How can we tell those countries that border Russia that their peace and sovereignty is guaranteed, if we do not make our message heard on Ukraine?" she added.

    State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the administration was evaluating a "range of tools," including increased sanctions, and said the possibility of providing Kiev with military assistance remained on the table.


    http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...-outright-lied


    What's President "No Strategy" Obama going to do?

  2. #2

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Eh, we'll deal with it next week. Today is fundraising day! And it's a holiday weekend you know.

  3. #3

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    What should he do?

    Sanctions.

    I'm sure you guys would like Obama to start lining up ICBM's on Russia's border and aim all of them at Putin.

    You know.... because that's how Ass Hat Global Police Roll.

  4. #4

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtNole
    Eh, we'll deal with it next week. Today is fundraising day! And it's a holiday weekend you know.
    I wouldn't even say next week. I would say next month. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Russia is playing a dangerous game here and we need to be very careful that we don't get caught in it anymore than we have to.

  5. #5

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Nole
    What should he do?

    Sanctions.

    I'm sure you guys would like Obama to start lining up ICBM's on Russia's border and aim all of them at Putin.

    You know.... because that's how Ass Hat Global Police Roll.

    Yes, that's exactly what everyone said. :roll:

  6. #6

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtNole
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Nole
    What should he do?

    Sanctions.

    I'm sure you guys would like Obama to start lining up ICBM's on Russia's border and aim all of them at Putin.

    You know.... because that's how Ass Hat Global Police Roll.

    Yes, that's exactly what everyone said. :roll:
    To be fair, you did just get done saying that Obama isn't dealing with it right now which does imply that you don't think he is doing enough. He's already tried diplomacy and sanctions. What else is left but military intervention?

  7. #7

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huey Grey
    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtNole
    Eh, we'll deal with it next week. Today is fundraising day! And it's a holiday weekend you know.
    I wouldn't even say next week. I would say next month. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Russia is playing a dangerous game here and we need to be very careful that we don't get caught in it anymore than we have to.

    Next week is next month. So, Tuesday, day after the holiday, what do you do? Do you take action, any action, to show you support Ukraine?

  8. #8

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Russia is playing the game smartly. Not really a war, but completely undermining Ukraine's sovereignty and security.

    Brooklyn has it right......probably put in place much tougher sanctions. But that will be thorny to work out, inasmuch as Germany and other Euro nations are so economically tied to Russia.

    Great times in the world these days, eh....

  9. #9

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition
    What's President "No Strategy" Obama going to do?
    WW3 strikes me as a bad idea.

    Obviously Poroshenko and Putin didn't come to an agreement in Belarus, and it is on the heels of that that Putin has again upped the ante. Putin said it can't be resolved by force, and I think he's introduced enough firepower to prevent Ukraine from settling it by force without help (that I don't see coming).

    I think the move into Donbass is part an an overreach to secure Crimea.
    Russia is dealing with half a million to a million refugees who fled so as to not be caught in the crossfire.

    I think Putin is aiming for a deal that recognizes Crimea's status, and gives the Donbass an opportunity to vote for independence (meaning join Russia).

    The Donbass is the economic center, and most Russian leaning part of what remains of Ukraine.

    The French are still selling an amphib ship to Russia that Russia has already explained will be based in Sevastopol. I just don't see Western Europe getting into a shooting war.

    Who cries uncle on the sanctions first remains to be seen. If the German economy continues to shrink because and they still can't export to Russia's oil and gas industry the sanctions might see some revision.

  10. #10

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    [quote=Huey Grey]
    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtNole
    Quote Originally Posted by "Brooklyn Nole":3o003pl7
    What should he do?

    Sanctions.

    I'm sure you guys would like Obama to start lining up ICBM's on Russia's border and aim all of them at Putin.

    You know.... because that's how Ass Hat Global Police Roll.

    Yes, that's exactly what everyone said. :roll:
    To be fair, you did just get done saying that Obama isn't dealing with it right now which does imply that you don't think he is doing enough. He's already tried diplomacy and sanctions. What else is left but military intervention?[/quote:3o003pl7]

    In his press conference he put everything off to next week - I'm going to do this, going to call our allies, etc. Bizarre statements all around.

    Of course we should not be going to war over this.

  11. #11

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    We go to war. We invade other countries. Then we get pissed when someone else does the same. It is none of our business.

  12. #12

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Quote Originally Posted by PYnole
    It is none of our business.
    Unfortunately I think a few years ago we decided to make it our business. We got Ukraine to give up their nuclear weapons in exchange for some kind of US security guarantee. We're certainly not going to war over it, but we'll push for strong sanctions if that's what Ukraine wants.

  13. #13

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Nole
    What should he do?

    Sanctions.

    I'm sure you guys would like Obama to start lining up ICBM's on Russia's border and aim all of them at Putin.

    You know.... because that's how Ass Hat Global Police Roll.
    Your missing the point, which is to ***** about whatever obama does or doesn't do. Suggesting a course of action precludes too many opportunities for further criticism.

  14. #14

    Re: Is it time to be honest and say Russia is at war?

    Quote Originally Posted by SWFNole
    Quote Originally Posted by Huey Grey
    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtNole
    Eh, we'll deal with it next week. Today is fundraising day! And it's a holiday weekend you know.
    I wouldn't even say next week. I would say next month. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Russia is playing a dangerous game here and we need to be very careful that we don't get caught in it anymore than we have to.

    Next week is next month. So, Tuesday, day after the holiday, what do you do? Do you take action, any action, to show you support Ukraine?
    We are not going to war over this, and the best course is probably more of what we are doing - striving to unite and mobilize Europe for stronger sanctions. The reasons why Putin is likely doing this are mostly domestic and with popular support. It will not be easy to reverse that.

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