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Thread: Audio from Ferguson killing

  1. #1

    Audio from Ferguson killing

    Interesting if true. How many shots do you need to put into an unarmed kid? And why the pause?

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/michae ... index.html
    King Jackass

  2. #2

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    He was not unarmed. He had arms, and hands, and fists, and demonstrated in the convenience store that he was not afraid to use them.

  3. #3

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Belem
    Interesting if true. How many shots do you need to put into an unarmed kid? And why the pause?

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/michae ... index.html
    The facts of this case have not been released so it's all speculation at this point but I'm going to guess, if initial reports are true, that aiming a firearm with a broken eye socket can be difficult
    For the left the cause is always more important than the people who suffer for it.

    The bigger fool than the fellow who knows it all is the one who'll argue with him.

  4. #4
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    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Belem
    Interesting if true. How many shots do you need to put into an unarmed kid? And why the pause?

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/michae ... index.html
    As many as it takes to kill him. How did the officer know the MAN was not armed.

    Why in the **** do people keep calling this grown man a kid?

  5. #5

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    According to Dr. Michael Baden, the Brown family's hired medical examiner, the shot that stopped/disabled him was the shot to the top of the head, and was most likely the last shot fired. The Officer shot until his attacker was no longer a threat.
    It should also be noted that Dr. Baden stated Brown was shot six times - all to the front of his body. Based upon the audio recording (if valid), six rounds were fired, a pause, then four rounds. That means that Brown was almost certainly facing (not running away from) Wilson during both volleys since it would take bullets from both volleys to comprise the six wounds when we know that the one to the top of the head was most likely the final round of the second volley.

  6. #6

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    How far away does someone have to be for a trained police officer to miss 4 out of 10 shots? How many shots does a trained police officer have to put into someone before they no longer feel the unarmed person is a threat? Are all police trained to keep firing until you are certain the person is dead?
    King Jackass

  7. #7

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Belem
    How far away does someone have to be for a trained police officer to miss 4 out of 10 shots? How many shots does a trained police officer have to put into someone before they no longer feel the unarmed person is a threat? Are all police trained to keep firing until you are certain the person is dead?
    Have you ever been in a life-threatening situation?

  8. #8

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Cops are trained to continue firing until there is absolutely no danger to themselves or the community.

    Meaning, most cops when they start shooting continue to do so until a body is laying face down in the street - preferably motionless.

  9. #9

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    I wonder how this story would be proceeding if those four missing bullets had hit bystanders.

  10. #10

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition
    Quote Originally Posted by Belem
    How far away does someone have to be for a trained police officer to miss 4 out of 10 shots? How many shots does a trained police officer have to put into someone before they no longer feel the unarmed person is a threat? Are all police trained to keep firing until you are certain the person is dead?
    Have you ever been in a life-threatening situation?

    Sure, thanks for asking.
    King Jackass

  11. #11

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Quote Originally Posted by UCLA
    I wonder how this story would be proceeding if those four missing bullets had hit bystanders.
    Depends on if the bystanders were "thugs" or not.
    King Jackass

  12. #12

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Belem
    Quote Originally Posted by The Tradition
    Quote Originally Posted by Belem
    How far away does someone have to be for a trained police officer to miss 4 out of 10 shots? How many shots does a trained police officer have to put into someone before they no longer feel the unarmed person is a threat? Are all police trained to keep firing until you are certain the person is dead?
    Have you ever been in a life-threatening situation?

    Sure, thanks for asking.
    Did you have time to think about what the proper response should be, consider your training in the event something like that should happen, and act accordingly?

    Or did you go straight into "Fight or Flight" response and think about it afterwards?

  13. #13

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Quote Originally Posted by Belem
    How far away does someone have to be for a trained police officer to miss 4 out of 10 shots? How many shots does a trained police officer have to put into someone before they no longer feel the unarmed person is a threat? Are all police trained to keep firing until you are certain the person is dead?
    Under stress (or after being bludgeoned and having to struggle for control of your firearm), 60% hits is actually very good. Average is somewhere around 20-30%. It's not quite the same as standing on a range and firing at paper targets. An Office's job is to protect the public. His desire is to go home at the end of his shift. The two volleys took less than seven seconds. In that time Wilson had to stop the threat. During my training, many years ago, we were told a person shot directly in the heart can still function for up to fourteen seconds (why fourteen and not fifteen or thirteen, I do not know) - only a CNS (central nervous system) hit can be counted on to cause instant incapacitation. And Dr Baden's analysis of this event seemed to reinforce this.

  14. #14
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    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    If if's and buts, were candy and nuts,...we could have a party ;-)

  15. #15

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    [quote=The Tradition]
    Quote Originally Posted by Belem
    Quote Originally Posted by "The Tradition":3grx1o3n
    Quote Originally Posted by Belem
    How far away does someone have to be for a trained police officer to miss 4 out of 10 shots? How many shots does a trained police officer have to put into someone before they no longer feel the unarmed person is a threat? Are all police trained to keep firing until you are certain the person is dead?
    Have you ever been in a life-threatening situation?

    Sure, thanks for asking.
    Did you have time to think about what the proper response should be, consider your training in the event something like that should happen, and act accordingly?

    Or did you go straight into "Fight or Flight" response and think about it afterwards?[/quote:3grx1o3n]

    My training? I'm do not have any training to handle life-threatening situations. We do have professionals who are supposed to be well trained in this, they used to be called peace officers.
    King Jackass

  16. #16

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Quote Originally Posted by ram198
    Quote Originally Posted by Belem
    How far away does someone have to be for a trained police officer to miss 4 out of 10 shots? How many shots does a trained police officer have to put into someone before they no longer feel the unarmed person is a threat? Are all police trained to keep firing until you are certain the person is dead?
    Under stress (or after being bludgeoned and having to struggle for control of your firearm), 60% hits is actually very good. Average is somewhere around 20-30%. It's not quite the same as standing on a range and firing at paper targets. An Office's job is to protect the public. His desire is to go home at the end of his shift. The two volleys took less than seven seconds. In that time Wilson had to stop the threat. During my training, many years ago, we were told a person shot directly in the heart can still function for up to fourteen seconds (why fourteen and not fifteen or thirteen, I do not know) - only a CNS (central nervous system) hit can be counted on to cause instant incapacitation. And Dr Baden's analysis of this event seemed to reinforce this.
    Pretty good for what distance? At what distance is an unarmed man still a threat to your life?
    King Jackass

  17. #17

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    We have to be careful in situations like this not to let certain 'revisionist' data to cloud our view. We all know now that Trayvon wasn't armed, Mr Brown wasn't armed, and that even the kid in Salt Lake wasn't armed. But the police, and Mr Zimmerman, didn't know that. All 3 confronted what they perceived to be real threats to their health and safety and took action to protect themselves. Was officer Wilson being threatened? The physical and forensic evidence should answer this.
    For the left the cause is always more important than the people who suffer for it.

    The bigger fool than the fellow who knows it all is the one who'll argue with him.

  18. #18
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    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Depends on how small the person is being threatened, and how LARGE the person is doing the threatening....

  19. #19

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    Blem wrote:
    "Pretty good for what distance? At what distance is an unarmed man still a threat to your life?"

    Average gunfight is 5-7 yards. I assume the 20-30% was based upon that. Real life isn't like Hollywood - not easy to shoot the gun (or knife, or rock, etc) out of the bad guys hand when everything is moving and you are under extreme stress. As for what distance is an unarmed 6'4" 292lbs man who has already punched me silly and tried to take my weapon still a threat to me? Assuming no severe limitations, Mr Brown could cover a distance of seven yards in about two seconds. Not much time to reflect upon your options when he's coming at you.

  20. #20

    Re: Audio from Ferguson killing

    You stated above that the two volleys took less than 7 seconds. But now say that the dead guy was likely 5-7 yards away and could cover that in 2 seconds. The photos of the dead body don't show it within yards of a cruiser. Can you come up with a scenario that fits the facts that puts the cop in such imminent danger?
    It appears to me that the dead kid was further away than that when the firing started and stopped.
    King Jackass

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