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Thread: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since 2009

  1. #1

    Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since 2009

    "Saturday 23 August 2014 19.05 EDT

    The planet's two largest ice sheets – in Greenland and Antarctica – are now being depleted at an astonishing rate of 120 cubic miles each year. That is the discovery made by scientists using data from CryoSat-2, the European probe that has been measuring the thickness of Earth's ice sheets and glaciers since it was launched by the European Space Agency in 2010.
    Even more alarming, the rate of loss of ice from the two regions has more than doubled since 2009, revealing the dramatic impact that climate change is beginning to have on our world.

    The researchers, based at Germany's Alfred Wegener Institute Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research – used 200m data points across Antarctica and 14.3m across Greenland, all collected by CryoSat, to study how the ice sheets there had changed over the past three years. The satellite carries a high-precision altimeter, which sends out short radar pulses that bounce off the ice surface and then back to the satellite. By measuring the time this takes, the height of the ice beneath the spacecraft can be calculated....

    The discovery of these losses of ice is particularly striking and represents yet another blow to claims by some climate-change deniers, who argue that the rapid loss of ice in the Arctic currently being observed is being matched by a corresponding increase in Antarctica. CryoSat's measurements show that Antarctica – although considerably colder than the Arctic because of its much higher average elevation – is not gaining ice at all. Indeed, it is – overall – losing considerable volumes, and in the case of West Antarctica is doing so at an alarming rate....."

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -greenland

  2. #2
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    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Still have not seen any proof of warming in the past 17 years...

    Lose Ice here,...gain it there.... big whoop

  3. #3

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Global warming is the biggest shakedown society has seen since the advent of the Catholic church.
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

  4. #4
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    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    Global warming is the biggest shakedown society has seen since the advent of the Catholic church.

    Watch out Soup, Belem will be along shortly to call you "Clueless"

  5. #5

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Meh, I've been called worse.
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

  6. #6

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by Guckster
    Still have not seen any proof of warming in the past 17 years...

    Lose Ice here,...gain it there.... big whoop
    Hopefully you've submitted your data to NASA, the NAS, and/or the IPCC. I know I always eagerly await your findings.

  7. #7
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    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    Quote Originally Posted by Guckster
    Still have not seen any proof of warming in the past 17 years...

    Lose Ice here,...gain it there.... big whoop
    Hopefully you've submitted your data to NASA, the NAS, and/or the IPCC. I know I always eagerly await your findings.

    I could care less, worship Government agencies if you want.

  8. #8

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    Quote Originally Posted by Guckster
    Still have not seen any proof of warming in the past 17 years...

    Lose Ice here,...gain it there.... big whoop
    Hopefully you've submitted your data to NASA, the NAS, and/or the IPCC. I know I always eagerly await your findings.
    I like how we've been fighting this war for 40-50 years and we're still not even close to solving it. Every year the government needs just a little more from its citizens for the problem to go away, and every year they get it in the name of the collective...but it's never enough. It'll never be enough, because, like I said prior, this is nothing but a global shakedown. Instead of, "give us your money or your going to burn in hell", it's now, "give us your money or you'll destroy civilization."
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

  9. #9

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    Quote Originally Posted by Guckster
    Still have not seen any proof of warming in the past 17 years...

    Lose Ice here,...gain it there.... big whoop
    Hopefully you've submitted your data to NASA, the NAS, and/or the IPCC. I know I always eagerly await your findings.

    Those organization play scant attention to data that contradicts their hypothesis.

    Here is some good analysis. http://www.the-american-interest.com...last-til-2025/


    Settled Science Scientists: Break in Global Warming Could Last Until 2025

    The “pause” in global warming the world has been experiencing over the past decade or so could continue through to 2025, according to a new study. Researchers have struggled to explain why surface temperatures have failed to rise as predicted, despite the emission of ever-increasing amounts of greenhouse gases. Scientists have posited that much of this heat is being stored in our planet’s oceans. The BBC reports:

    Last year a study suggested that a periodic upwelling of cooler waters in the Pacific was limiting the rise. [...] However this latest work, published in the journal Science, shifts the focus from the Pacific to the Atlantic and Southern oceans.

    The team, lead by Prof Ka-Kit Tung from the University of Washington, US, says there is now evidence that a 30-year current alternately warms and cools the world by sinking large amounts of heat beneath these deep waters. [...]

    Other scientists say that the Atlantic hypothesis is interesting but a much longer range of observations is needed. “We really don’t have a lot of data,” said Dr Jonathan Robson from the University of Reading, UK. “So if there is this 60-year oscillation in the ocean, we haven’t observed it all, basically we’ve observed the impact of it. We may have to wait 15-20 years to know what’s going on.”

    There are a few things we do know about global warming—certain gases trap solar radiation within our atmosphere, warming our planet, and humanity has been emitting these gases in huge quantities since the industrial revolution. But there are plenty of other variables and feedback loops in our planet’s climate that we don’t understand, as this recent plateau in warming shows.

    Our planet’s climate may be the most intricate and complicated system we have available to study; it’s no wonder, then, that our models fail time and time again to accurately predict what comes next. This doesn’t mean that climate change adaptation and mitigation strategies belong in the dustbin, but it does highlight the folly of linking climate policies to specific temperature targets.

    A final note for the environmental movement: claiming climate science as “settled” does more harm to your cause than good. By overstating their case, greens have not only alienated skeptical opponents, they’ve also undermined their own credibility. The dangers of climate change are undeniably real, but our understanding of the details—the “fiddly bits”—of this system are quite limited. Pretending otherwise isn’t just dishonest, it’s a strategic blunder.
    Published on August 22, 2014 2:06 pm
    "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."

    -- Richard P. Feynman.

  10. #10

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    "There are a few things we do know about global warming—certain gases trap solar radiation within our atmosphere, warming our planet"


    This is sort of like the thermos question.... How does it know to let the thermal radiation in but not let it out?

    :-)

  11. #11

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBlueNole
    "There are a few things we do know about global warming—certain gases trap solar radiation within our atmosphere, warming our planet"


    This is sort of like the thermos question.... How does it know to let the thermal radiation in but not let it out?

    :-)
    It is actually a true fact. The problem with the AGW hypothesis is two fold.

    1.) No one has a good understanding of how climate change works, sans mankind putting CO2 in the atmosphere

    2.) Earth's Climate is not closed system. A closed system has predictable outcomes.
    "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."

    -- Richard P. Feynman.

  12. #12

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by MJWilliamson

    Those organization play scant attention to data that contradicts their hypothesis. Here is some good analysis. http://www.the-american-interest.com...last-til-2025/
    So, let's introduce an immeasurable variable into the hypothesis to further hypothesize why the original models aren't working. Sounds legit.

    I'm sure they will be soon varying their historical models to "standardize" this surface warming that hasn't occurred.

    Maybe it all has something to do with the really large 27,000,000 degree ball of thermally radiating plasma that is located in our solar system. http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v.../ngeo2225.html

  13. #13

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by MJWilliamson
    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    Quote Originally Posted by Guckster
    Still have not seen any proof of warming in the past 17 years...

    Lose Ice here,...gain it there.... big whoop
    Hopefully you've submitted your data to NASA, the NAS, and/or the IPCC. I know I always eagerly await your findings.

    Those organization play scant attention to data that contradicts their hypothesis.

    Here is some good analysis. http://www.the-american-interest.com...last-til-2025/


    Settled Science Scientists: Break in Global Warming Could Last Until 2025

    The “pause” in global warming the world has been experiencing over the past decade or so could continue through to 2025, according to a new study. Researchers have struggled to explain why surface temperatures have failed to rise as predicted, despite the emission of ever-increasing amounts of greenhouse gases. Scientists have posited that much of this heat is being stored in our planet’s oceans. The BBC reports:

    Last year a study suggested that a periodic upwelling of cooler waters in the Pacific was limiting the rise. [...] However this latest work, published in the journal Science, shifts the focus from the Pacific to the Atlantic and Southern oceans.

    The team, lead by Prof Ka-Kit Tung from the University of Washington, US, says there is now evidence that a 30-year current alternately warms and cools the world by sinking large amounts of heat beneath these deep waters. [...]

    Other scientists say that the Atlantic hypothesis is interesting but a much longer range of observations is needed. “We really don’t have a lot of data,” said Dr Jonathan Robson from the University of Reading, UK. “So if there is this 60-year oscillation in the ocean, we haven’t observed it all, basically we’ve observed the impact of it. We may have to wait 15-20 years to know what’s going on.”

    There are a few things we do know about global warming—certain gases trap solar radiation within our atmosphere, warming our planet, and humanity has been emitting these gases in huge quantities since the industrial revolution. But there are plenty of other variables and feedback loops in our planet’s climate that we don’t understand, as this recent plateau in warming shows.

    Our planet’s climate may be the most intricate and complicated system we have available to study; it’s no wonder, then, that our models fail time and time again to accurately predict what comes next. This doesn’t mean that climate change adaptation and mitigation strategies belong in the dustbin, but it does highlight the folly of linking climate policies to specific temperature targets.

    A final note for the environmental movement: claiming climate science as “settled” does more harm to your cause than good. By overstating their case, greens have not only alienated skeptical opponents, they’ve also undermined their own credibility. The dangers of climate change are undeniably real, but our understanding of the details—the “fiddly bits”—of this system are quite limited. Pretending otherwise isn’t just dishonest, it’s a strategic blunder.
    Published on August 22, 2014 2:06 pm
    "Walter Russell Mead is James Clarke Chace Professor of Foreign Affairs and Humanities at Bard College and Editor-at-Large of The American Interest magazine."

    Oh, OK. I guess his opinion trumps all the National Academies of Sciences in the world, all associations of scientists in relevant fields in the world, and 97% of climate scientists actve in the field, all of whom endorse the consensus science on the subject as well as it's threat to our civilization. Good get! Almost on a level with guckster's findings.

  14. #14
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    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Show the overall warming in the past 17 years.

  15. #15

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by Guckster
    Show the overall warming in the past 17 years.
    Unlike you, I'm not a climate scientists so I can only suggest you keep up with publications like Scientific American, research published by the National Academy of Science, NASA, or blogs run by climate scientists like Real Climate. I think you might find the report issued by the formerly doubtting head of the Koch brothers funded Berkeley Group to also be helpful to your research. It's all very technical and over my head, but no doubt will be like mother's milk to someone like you.

  16. #16
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    Arrow Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    None of those has an agenda I am sure.

  17. #17

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    The question really isn't whether the Earth is warming, the question is what impact does man have on it? The Earth has been warming and cooling since it's inception. I'm guessing that it has more to do with the Sun and orbits than what man is doing.
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

  18. #18

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by Guckster
    None of those has an agenda I am sure.

    It's hard for most humans to maintain your laser like focus on the truth without regard for political beliefs. You're an inspiration to me.

  19. #19

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    The question really isn't whether the Earth is warming, the question is what impact does man have on it? The Earth has been warming and cooling since it's inception. I'm guessing that it has more to do with the Sun and orbits than what man is doing.

    Nice sig, but even Donnie would know that the overwhelming majority of climate scientists, not to mention the official positions of every National Academy of Sciences and every relevant association of scientists in the world don't agree with your assessment.

  20. #20

    Re: Antarctic and Greenland ice loss more than double since

    Quote Originally Posted by wordjazz
    Quote Originally Posted by NoleSoup4U
    The question really isn't whether the Earth is warming, the question is what impact does man have on it? The Earth has been warming and cooling since it's inception. I'm guessing that it has more to do with the Sun and orbits than what man is doing.

    Nice sig, but even Donnie would know that the overwhelming majority of climate scientists, not to mention the official positions of every National Academy of Sciences and every relevant association of scientists in the world don't agree with your assessment.
    So, what do they feel was the reason for warming and cooling before the 1800's?

    Like I said in an earlier post, no matter what we do, it's never enough. Every year we're frightened into giving up our money and our liberties to the climate change gods. Emperor Constantine would be in awe of what the global warming community has been able to accomplish.

    Global warming reminds me a lot of the War on Terror. There are no clear objective, it costs a ton of money, and it continually leads to losses of liberty.
    I am going to tear down your safe space
    Brick by brick I shall smash it with glee
    You cannot stop me from getting inside
    I am cold and I am hard and my name is 'Reality'

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